Arguing with Knowledgeable Pro Life Lefty Gabe: On Black Nationalism, Craig Livingstone, and the late Manning Marable

Gabe writes so much stuff over at Facebook I might as well get some posting in here at Mirror Universe. Here's what he wrote:

Gabriel Kierran Mccloskey-Ross

‎@Philip The conversation occurred at the Frontlash / Young Social Democrats retreat in Front Royal, VA. The occasion was Tom Kahn's discussion of SNCC. Stokley Carmichael despite being on the Socialist Party's payroll had voted to ban his comrades Kahn, Rachelle Horowitz, Casey and Tom Hayden, Steve Max and many others from membership in SNCC. This was a daft idea. Carmichael later split with Dr. King and Norman Thomas over the use of violence in the Civil Rights struggle. This was at the point that Carmichael join the Black Panther Party for Self Defense. The Panthers were no match for cops militarily and Carmichael lived the rest of his life aboard. The only conversation I remember having with Manning about Black Nationalism was when we were drinking beer at the Phone Booth Bar and someone announced that Gerry Conney had stopped Kenny Norton in the second round. I celebrated and Manning wailed. I pointed out I had the same right to Irish nationalism as he had to Black nationalism. Manning made comrade Dougherty and myself "honorary niggers" at DSOC youth section convention as no one would speak with us either. So the three of us talked to each other the entire evening along with agent Livingstone of the FBI. You remember Craig, from IUP undergrad to chief of White House Security in 5 years. My concern was not with Marable's ideology, but that the New American Movement felt that his presence would bring in many black members. As the Democratic Socialist Alliance of West Central, PA had more Black members than the entire New American Movement, I saw this as rather silly. When I read Manning had passed I began re-reading "From The Grassroots" If Manning and I were in opposition you would never know it from his warm message to me written on the front page. Obviously I disagree with Marable's attack on Phil Randolph as a "class collaborationist." He was as much a class collaborationist as he was an "Uncle Tom." The other Big Phil heard plenty of that when he asked John Lewis to re-write his 1963 speech. Actually Tom and Rachelle rewrote it as they had written the original. I only saw Manning twice since you and I last met. The meetings were down right warm with hugs instead of handshkakes As with you the ongoing correspondence on Movement for New Society and the Commitees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism and life in general was warm no matter how much we disagreed. We lost a valuable comrade much too young when Manning died

I didn't say the conversation didn't exist but that I don't remember when or where we had it. Hey, if you say so...although I'm pretty certain we had that "Manning Marable was a black nationalist" exchange somewhere at IUP or was it on the streets of Philly...I can't recall. I do want to say that I understand why black leaders would always want a "room of their own" so to speak. Carmicheal also spoke at IUP, surprisingly enough, but by then he had changed his name to, I believe, Kwame Ture.  The main thing I remember from it, other than a slashing attack against the priesthood, was that African Americans should support some organization, whether it be the Black Panthers or Urban League or the NAACP. That always made sense to me. I noticed that you gloss over that history just a bit. I can't help but notice that The Man seemed to slaughter all of my leaders whether they were dedicated to non violence or not. I actually thought that the lesson of the 60s civil rights movement was that you needed both violent and non violent factions competing against each other in order for the whole thing to work...

Haven't heard Craig Livingstone's name in awhile. I always thought Craig legitimately believed in The Left. He didn't strike me as being an FBI plant. Why do you think that? In fact, I think his fall from grace felt, to me, like a bit of a setup, probably due to the fact that he hung around all sorts of undesirables like, uh, well, you. And me too probably. Just a theory. I wish Stone would get back into the game as it were. He was a charismatic and intelligent who I think would have represented our concerns very well or even as a friend to Hillary. I must confess the scenario where you are the informant--and the gradual evolution of social dems into hard right republican fascists--would seem more plausible, especially considering your almost rabid hatred of commies, articulated in this informative video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju3h7yk4Hcg

So please don't have me killed or whatever...just joking. I hope....

I'm a little cloudy on the A. Philip Randolph stuff. If I recall I believe that Manning was the first time I had read of the legacy of A. Philip Randolph and I think what he wrote was mostly positive although I honestly have no idea where my copy of "From the Grassroots" happens to be. I do think his death is unfortunate because if someone primaries Obama from the left it would be nice to have one or two prominent black intellectuals say that "Hey, we'll probably get a better deal from Howard Dean or Russ Feingold". They did try to save him with that double lung transplant and all...tragic loss.